How Do You Define "High Quality Maps"

[KiCk3R]

High Quality Maps...

Ive seen the discussion on quite a few posts now.
I want to hear how YOU define it!

Mappers can look on this thread for ideas when users look for a good map.

I also want to hear why people prefer "Official" maps rather than "Custom" ... considering alot of the maps out there for KF are extremely good!

Discuss...

[manhunt0r]

ffs put some substance into the vote like:
map size
tactical possibilietes
visuals
performance optimization
zombie pathing
quantity and placement of weapon pickups

//sarcasm=true;
if i were to follow your questions:

Is not an issue for me! - that means everyone would actually be happy with the box of doom from the kf tutorial

Is a very important issue! - ok so lets just name the maps like KF-West_London_HIGH_QUAILITY

I Will not even consider downloading if its not! - how the heck would you u know if its good or not? wait for others opinions in a community consisting of like 30 active members?

I don't care! All i want to do is pwn! - box of doom again

I think some maps could have room for improvement - every map has that, nothing is perfect nor will it ever be

[KiCk3R]

Never mind the vote!
Read the post!

[mrmedic]

My reply currently rules. As of this day, it is my day.

[kyben]

most custom maps don't have tactics, visuals, performance optimization, or a good map size. Its usually exploited alot, looks like crap, and they don't know how to zone or use anti-portals. A big part of KF is its atmosphere and no custom maps have that, not even my own. I don't play KF much, and when I do I don't want to be playing KF- Parking Lot, Mall, or that under the sea one. I guess it makes sense for the rest of you who play KF alot and get tired of the official, but I just can't stand them.

Sorry if I insulted you or your maps, but thats my 2 cents.

[KiCk3R]

I like to see atmosphere in maps.
Visuals is more of a key thing for me rather than tactics.

Optimization is not really important to me... if your lagging ... get a higher spec machine
But Zoning is important!

Glitching and exploiting is a pain in the ass... it should be abolished in any map!


Can any of you please tell me "Tatics" that can be used in any official maps ... other than ... Weld yourself in the chuch lol.
PS:
Whats wrong with Mall ... i think its not bad!

Mr.Medic ... you scare me

[maul]

kk well my definition of a HIGH QUALITY map is pretty much a level that totally involves you in the game - so that the atmosphere is immersive. This can be achieved in multiple ways, as Alex has done in Offices - he used a combination of lighting and structure to make it seem as though there was no safe place...biotics labs used visuals and lighting to achieve an atmosphere...etc.
Basically a high quality map is just the best of everything. The only maps I consider to be high quality aside from Alex's are the following:

KF - Swamp (Due to the atmospheric horror-movie feel)
KF - Wasteyard (there is a fair amount of detail invested in this map...I find its visuals cool.)

Whats wrong with Mall you ask? Kinda everything...its visuals are very short of realistic...the detail and atmosphere is almost non-existant and often texture choice is pretty bad. Also the map is way too small. Something i have noticed with that majority of the maps in the map-pack.
They were terrible. Nothing short of hideous.

[Antigod]

Yeah I agree, there are some absolute craptastic maps out there, Mall comes to mind as well as Downtown etc!

I agree that maps need atmosphere, this can be done in multiple ways. However I now believe that the evolution of KF is in the objective based maps. Tower (although awesome) is a prime example, a kind of BETA if you will. It's an amazing map that requires teamwork, but the premise isnt exactly KF, if you know what I mean.

At the end of the day the official maps are probably the best ones, but they do get boring, fast. As long as good mappers such as Kyben, PiX, Kicker, Grim etc keep churning out the good custom maps then I'll be happy.

[maul]

i thought the premise of Tower was good however I felt let down by the overly simplistic visuals when i had a crack at it. There were some badly chosen textures and such...etc.
yeah I'm really picky...

[Asnipe34]

"Blocked Subway" by Alexia Fireheart, (if I've got the names right). "Escape to Heaven" great maps.

People say they don't like 'escape from zombie glitches' which is bullshit because glitches are the first place online players head for. People say they like pretty maps, bullshit because they run like dogs with lead balls and they are seldom played.

I'm saying you're fickle bunch of mealymouthed pricks, not to any particular individual but if you don't encourage people like Fireheart who at least have tried, KF will die. Custom maps aren't perfect, but neither are pro maps. People say one thing and mean another and the best way to put it is, most critiques of custom maps are in the main a crock of shit.

Get custom maps online and get them played. The HUB, a nice idea kind of kills custom maps. Put up new custom maps and let's have a play thru. Diversity -- difference is fun. It's what people want. It's why KF took off in the first place.

There are new mappers out there who think, shit I'm going to get ripped to pieces for my map on KF Forum, and besides, few will play my map -- better go elsewhere. No new maps and KF will die before its time.

So custom maps with no atmosphere and badly made? That's because you've got no imagination, you see no potential and frankly you're a waste of space, not the maps. That's not personal, but fair comment in defense of the drivel spouted here and elsewhere in the forum about custom maps.

Rip me and my maps to pieces by all means, but true, like everyone I appreciate praise. Although I'm older with a rawhide arse and I'll make my maps regardless.

Maybe a separate forum area for 'mappers only' would keep out infant 'riff-raff?' Just a thought.

[maul]

whoa whoa Asnipe34 buddy chill out.
Surely we can have a discussion without a bit of name calling eh? I totally agree with you that diversity is fun, and thus that is why people like yourself and even myself try...but I have to say I disagree that map-glitches are the first places that people head for, for me if there is a map glitch i fix it or if the map is full of them i delete it. simple as that, because its not how the game was designed to be played. Mapping is about creating a product that can be used in sync with the game, and it does not necessarily mean that the user has no imagination if the maps cannot immerse them properly, considering what effects and techniques are possible with the editor it seems pointless not to use them.
Personally I think the bar is set too low for Killing Floor, and too many people attempt maps only to fall flat on their face. Which does not mean they should stop mapping, but rather learn from their mistakes and refine, or decide to leave it to better mappers and pass the project along.
If someone really likes this mod and wants to map for it they won't give up. I think the more you compare Alex's maps to some of those created by other users you will learn to appreciate what really good mapping is all about.
And pretty maps only stretch as far as WestLondon and BioticsLabs which last time I checked were optimized perfectly...thus ran wonderfully even on my laptop and my mums five-year old desktop. So not all pretty maps run slow, that is a bit of an over-generalization if you don't mind me saying...
Anyway, take into account that when a map is made its immediately going to be judged against the pre-existing content...eg Alex's maps.

[Asnipe34]

Yeah, I should chill out as u say.

I was mainly irritated by the lack of response to Closed_off_Subway, even the cool response to other maps and this thing about 'setting-the-bar.' Sure we all want perfect maps and a private jet too, but let's get real. You want to play Alex's maps all day?. A perfect new map, up to your high standards at least every 6 months (as long as it takes!?) means 12 wonderful maps every 6 years, wow, I can hardly wait.

It won't happen, now will it.

Sniffing from a perfectionists pedestal helps no one. It's maps now, cheer on the learners, get playing their maps or KF will die. Then we'll be stuck with crap like Halo and all the drones who go with it. I don't want that but his bullshit 'setting-the-bar' will bring it. We're little people following Alex &Cos inspiration and sweat -- 'little' in a big shiny world of generic Halos. You want perfect shiny maps -- bar too low -- that's corporation stuff, this is the real world where for love, we work, sweat and die.

Let's encourage learner mappers, cheer them on, because that's how people get better and better.

And I will clarify 'corporate:' slaves to a machine that by its intention denies the love of art, and Halo Unreal others were made my brilliants artists. Beside the point, maybe, but learners need encouragement.

[maul]

Well, I don't think it will take me all that long to finish my map...and I'm aiming for a standard that is at least reminiscent of Alex's maps...not to mention I think Kicker's map is going to be definately high standard, regardless of the visuals which I know will only add to the experience.
I totally agree that we should cheer new mappers on, I am one myself lol.

[Asnipe34]

Where was I? I mean elitism is bound to failure. Purging the impure will alway end in a lonely bunker, alone.